Russell Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I have been looking around for a touring motorglider with side-by-side seating arrangement - this offers no problem, as there are many that fit the bill. The issue arises due to my height - 6'4", and as we all know, height is not necessarily your friend in aviation! I've called and spoken with several folks representing different manufacturers, flown in a Lambada, and can't seem to find something that I would be comfortable in. Anyone with any ideas? Ideas below the $80k range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobus Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I fly Scheibe SF-25's in the Netherlands. There are several with adjustable rudder pedals and a slightly longer fuselage, making them usable for tall people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a330er Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 We fly an old Grob 109, although I am only 6'2", with the adjustable rudder pedals feels like it would fit you. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John T Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I fly a Grob109b. It has adjustable rudder pedals and adjustable back rest. I'm also six feet four inches and find it comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted March 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Thanks for the feedback - I noticed that there is a Grob109B for sales in TX - http://www.learn2soar.net/G109B_N45GF.htm Seems the seller recently reduced his price from $70k to $50k. Any speculation why such a big drop - is the market terrible for this type aircraft, or is there something amiss? How would you evaluate an aircraft like this to ensure you get what you pay for? How difficult are parts to source, and people with the knowledge to work on these? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave McConeghey Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 a330er and John T - Please tell us your sitting height - while seated on a chair how far to the top of your head. Variation in leg length can sometimes be adjusted for but some ships don't leave enough headroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biplanebob Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 The Grob 109s are a good airplane, there is not much demand for them and the aircraft at learn to soar was listed last year when I was actively looking for a G-109. I imported one from Canada that needed a little work, I found that I could get parts such as brake disks, brake lines, from Grob with out difficulty, response was quick prices were OK and things were shipped efficiently, I dealt with Kim 'K.Fuller@grob-aircraft.com' Parts from Limbach were also easy to order, spark plugs and mag harness, brackets for alternator were in stock and shipped quickly, I dealt with Dennis 'dennis.ingelbach@limflug.de' When I was looking for a Grob many of the comments I got were that they were out of production and the Limbach engine was not well supported, these comments seemed to drive the perceived value of the aircraft down, my experience has been that neither statement is true and they are a great value for the investment. bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted March 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 Thanks Bob for the detailed info - did you pass on the one due to price? Or were there other considerations? I currently own an airplane long out of out of production - a 1952 Cessna 170 - but these are well supported, so I wasn't concerned about parts, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted March 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 5 hours ago, Dave McConeghey said: a330er and John T - Please tell us your sitting height - while seated on a chair how far to the top of your head. Variation in leg length can sometimes be adjusted for but some ships don't leave enough headroom. Dave, approx 38" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biplanebob Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 It was after talking to JP about the one at learn to soar, JP made me aware of the one in Canada that had been for sale for a while. Being an IA it was of interest to me since the cost was significantly less and I could oversee the import inspection and preparation for re-issuance of the airworthiness, so it was a significant savings for, not that the one at learn to soar was to expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted March 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 1 hour ago, biplanebob said: It was after talking to JP about the one at learn to soar, JP made me aware of the one in Canada that had been for sale for a while. Being an IA it was of interest to me since the cost was significantly less and I could oversee the import inspection and preparation for re-issuance of the airworthiness, so it was a significant savings for, not that the one at learn to soar was to expensive. Bob, out of curiosity, apparently these aircraft disassemble much like the unpowered versions - to trailer, etc. I have a powered aircraft hangared at a local airport, and there's no way something of this wingspan would fit. What realistic options are there for storage? I like to fly weekly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biplanebob Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 The wings are removable, and with the rigging dollies that came with my plane, my wife and I installed the wings in about 1/2 hour, with a 56' door on my hangar I have not removed them, but think that with practice it could be a routine event. My friend in Knoxville keeps his 109 in a tie-down with full covers, and other than some minor issues like water collecting in the speed brake wells has not experienced any major issues. Are you in a tee-hanger or a regular bay hangar with a 40 foot door?? If you are in an open bay hangar another possibility would be to have dollies that would allow the aircraft to be put in the hangar at an angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Scott Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I fly N630TT which is a Diamond HK36TTC. It is probably out of your price range. I am 6'2" and long waisted and have plenty of head room. The other non-turbo Diamond models (HK36TTS and HK36R) are probably cheaper if you can find one. The wings are about 56'. There was an optional system that let the wings be removed, folded back and hung from the tail. Mine doesn't have the option. With out it, it really takes three people to take the wings off. They're heavy. Until I got my hangar, I had a tiedown and a complete set of covers. Good luck Gil Scott KCMA Camarillo, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefferson Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 There are two versions of the Grob 109. I have flown the 109b. Did my glider training in that one. That would probably fit you nicely. The 109 version has the Limbach engine (80hp?). It is generally less expensive than the 109b. The 109b has a Grob (100hp?) engine, a larger cockpit, more extensive panel, longer wingspan and had optional folding wings. Very handy for storage. Wings rotate and fold back against the fuselage. I found the 109b to be a pretty good soaring ship. You might consider the Xenos side by side touring Motorglider from Sonex. It is a kit built ship, and can be powered as you like. VW, Rotax, UL... At least a dozen have been built and you might find one for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwenn Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I am 6' 3". I bought a Grob 109B in 2011 and have flown it several hundred hours. Seated, the top of my head is about 35 inches off the seat. I normally have the seat leaning back a bit but I have no problem with head room. The rudder pedals are adjustable so the everything fits me just fine. I think the 109B is a great motor glider. Not a great airplane or a great glider but a lot better glider than most airplanes and a lot better airplane than most gliders. I guess that is a definition of a motor glider. It holds 26 gallons of fuel and thus has a lot of range. I don't think the 109 is quite a good as it has a different airfoil which I understand loses performance in the rain. It also has a different engine with a bit less power. I have flown my 109B from coast to coast and have had it into and out of Leadville Co at 9927" on a hot summer day. I did this solo, and would recommend doing this very carefully. Several trips from Pittsburgh to Palm Beach Florida. Two friends in England, Tim Dews and Guy Westgate, are now doing night aerobatic shows with Grob 109B's including pyro's, laser light and smoke. Shows all over Europe. Some of the pictures on their web site show the capabilities of the 109B. Google AeroSparx. Some AerosparxGrob Pictures.msg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted March 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 3 hours ago, Jefferson said: There are two versions of the Grob 109. I have flown the 109b. Did my glider training in that one. That would probably fit you nicely. The 109 version has the Limbach engine (80hp?). It is generally less expensive than the 109b. The 109b has a Grob (100hp?) engine, a larger cockpit, more extensive panel, longer wingspan and had optional folding wings. Very handy for storage. Wings rotate and fold back against the fuselage. I found the 109b to be a pretty good soaring ship. You might consider the Xenos side by side touring Motorglider from Sonex. It is a kit built ship, and can be powered as you like. VW, Rotax, UL... At least a dozen have been built and you might find one for sale. Thanks - I sat in one of the Sonex kits (understand the cockpits are very similar from model to model, and there is no way I and another person would fit in this! I like the kit, and finished product however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted March 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 1 hour ago, schwenn said: I am 6' 3". I bought a Grob 109B in 2011 and have flown it several hundred hours. Seated, the top of my head is about 35 inches off the seat. I normally have the seat leaning back a bit but I have no problem with head room. The rudder pedals are adjustable so the everything fits me just fine. I think the 109B is a great motor glider. Not a great airplane or a great glider but a lot better glider than most airplanes and a lot better airplane than most gliders. I guess that is a definition of a motor glider. It holds 26 gallons of fuel and thus has a lot of range. I don't think the 109 is quite a good as it has a different airfoil which I understand loses performance in the rain. It also has a different engine with a bit less power. I have flown my 109B from coast to coast and have had it into and out of Leadville Co at 9927" on a hot summer day. I did this solo, and would recommend doing this very carefully. Several trips from Pittsburgh to Palm Beach Florida. Two friends in England, Tim Dews and Guy Westgate, are now doing night aerobatic shows with Grob 109B's including pyro's, laser light and smoke. Shows all over Europe. Some of the pictures on their web site show the capabilities of the 109B. Google AeroSparx. Some AerosparxGrob Pictures.msg Thanks for the info - impressive images! Are these rated for aerobatics? I also read the 109B was a marked improvement over the 109. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwenn Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 The Grob 109B is not rated for aerobatics but it is obviously a very strong airplane and capable of doing some aerobatics. AeroSparx has, I believe, a waiver to do certain things not otherwise approved in the flight manual. I been to one of their displays in England and it is impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermalseeker Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 I own a Super Ximango and have taken a 6'4" passenger who was about 260 lbs. Knee room for actuating the prop control to the 'feather' position was tight, but he fit and was comfortable for our hour and a half flight. The seat and back cushion are pretty thick in my X. They could be replaced with thinner cushions for taller folks to give a little more head and leg room. The rudder pedals in the Ximango have about 12" of adjustment travel, helping to accommodate taller folks, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Blanchard Posted November 8 Report Share Posted November 8 I have a Aerotechnik L-13 SEH Vivat, in good condition . I flew it across the USA from Fredericton , New Brunswick , Canada, and into the US at Houlton, Maine . I flew through New England , South of the Great Lakes , across the Great Plains and over the Rockies of Montana, Idaho and Washington states , then across the border into BC . I live in Langley, BC area. The entire trip took 40 hours. I flew it 10 hours before crossing the continent , and another 10 hours in and around BC. have a sailboat also so will sell the motor glider ! At 71, I have figured out that I’m ready to hang out on the beach , in South East Asia . I will sell the motor glider and the boat ! I have a spare engine , in good condition also , as well as other spares. Regards to all pilots out there, looking for fun and adventure ! Bob Blanchard Mobile: 778-999-6410 Email: pilgrimbob123@gmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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