Sailplane Myths

Abstract:  Discussion of sailplane myths and 'urban legends'

Hi Carat Fans;

There are some, "interesting" , urban legends out there.

Enclosed are some "myth buster" corrections.

1. Eric is right, a clear plexiglas canopy stops about 95% of the suns UVA & UVB rays, a tinted canopy even more. Most serious sailplane pilots wear a soaring hat, a soaring shirt & use sun screen when soaring. The UV exposure come from the reflective white surface of the glider during assmbly or cleaning, not while soaring under the canopy.

2. Having flown over 10 different Carats, with over 300 hrs. flight time and over 500 engine starts, I have never had aa Carat not start.
Motorglider engine non starting is usualy the result of pilot error, or low battery.

3. Owning a low wing Carat, a high wing Cessna 182, having owned about 20 DG's sailplanes & motorgliders, haven flown many soaring contests, and as the safety officer of the USA Motorglider Association, I find that thermaling a high wing aircraft, with, its inherent wing blocking lack of vision to the inside of the turn, to raise the hairs on the back of my neck, ie. its Very unsafe.

4. The second generation Carat, when tuned & wingleted, has an L/D of around 40/1, a minimum sink rate of 138 fpm, and a sink rate at 80 knots of about 300 fpm. All of these numbers, especially the sink rate at 80 knots, are necessary for good cross country sailplane performance.
Aircraft like the Sinus, which are essentially light sport aircraft, have about half of the sailplane performance numbers of the Carat and do not excell at cross country soaring.

Myth buster #5 to follow.

Oliver Dyer-Bennet
AMS/USA

Subject: Re: Sailplane myths
From: "Carsten" <ca_bauer@Doj9blpgQEnjq79J8zzOLmxy3-qad1_GqzdA4frySfGYkpI8VoMjYomwasp2823KmmcBI62pEg.yahoo.invalid>
Date: 11/18/09 12:48 PM
To: caratmotorglider@yahoogroups.com

Yeah Dan, 40:1 is a bit optimistic. I give mine a realistic 36:1. The Discus (same wings) has about 43:1, but it´s a lot cleaner and the nose section is smaller.

--- In caratmotorglider@yahoogroups.com, Dan Rihn <rihndan@...> wrote:
> >
> > come on Oliver....40/1 is a bit of a stretch don't you think.
> > Dan
> >
> > --- On Wed, 11/18/09, dyerbennet <amsaero@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: dyerbennet <amsaero@...>
> > Subject: [caratmotorglider] Sailplane myths
> > To: caratmotorglider@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 11:05 AM
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Carat Fans;
> >
> > There are some, "interesting" , urban legends out there.
> >
> > Enclosed are some "myth buster" corrections.
> >
> > 1. Eric is right, a clear plexiglas canopy stops about 95% of the suns UVA & UVB rays, a tinted canopy even more. Most serious sailplane pilots wear a soaring hat, a soaring shirt & use sun screen when soaring. The UV exposure come from the reflective white surface of the glider during assmbly or cleaning, not while soaring under the canopy.
> >
> > 2. Having flown over 10 different Carats, with over 300 hrs. flight time and over 500 engine starts, I have never had aa Carat not start.
> > Motorglider engine non starting is usualy the result of pilot error, or low battery.
> >
> > 3. Owning a low wing Carat, a high wing Cessna 182, having owned about 20 DG's sailplanes & motorgliders, haven flown many soaring contests, and as the safety officer of the USA Motorglider Association, I find that thermaling a high wing aircraft, with, its inherent wing blocking lack of vision to the inside of the turn, to raise the hairs on the back of my neck, ie. its Very unsafe.
> >
> > 4. The second generation Carat, when tuned & wingleted, has an L/D of around 40/1, a minimum sink rate of 138 fpm, and a sink rate at 80 knots of about 300 fpm. All of these numbers, especially the sink rate at 80 knots, are necessary for good cross country sailplane performance.
> > Aircraft like the Sinus, which are essentially light sport aircraft, have about half of the sailplane performance numbers of the Carat and do not excell at cross country soaring.
> >
> > Myth buster #5 to follow.
> >
> > Oliver Dyer-Bennet
> > AMS/USA
> >

Subject: Sailplane myths
From: "dyerbennet" <amsaero@Ap6TXGSh2n2zzvZvvSU8SQsxrUaFiHMDDPaXp9-N1E_EOyj7aNIuqCRNXbg5dQBbJWrfEmwHEQ.yahoo.invalid>
Date: 11/18/09 1:14 PM
To: caratmotorglider@yahoogroups.com

Hi Carat Fans;

There are some, "intresting", urban legends out there.

Enclosed are some "myth buster" corrections.

1. Eric is right, a clear plexiglas canopy stops about 95% of the suns UVA & UVB rays, a tinted canopy even more. Most serious sailplane pilots wear a soaring hat, sunglasses, a soaring shirt & use sun screen when soaring. The UV exposure comes from the reflective white surface of the glider, or directly from sun exposure, during assembly or cleaning, not while soaring under the canopy.

2. Having flown over 10 different Carats, with over 300 hrs. flight time and over 500 engine starts, I have never had a Carat not start. Any motorglider engine non starting is usually the result of pilot error, or a low batttery.

3. Owning a low wing Carat, a high wing Cessna 182, having owned about 20 DG's sailplanes & motorgliders, having flown many soaring contests, and as the safety officer of the USA Motorglider Association, I find that the idea of thermaling a high wing aircraft, with its inherent wing blocking lack of vision in the direction of turn, especially with other gliders in the vicinity or in a glider gaggle, to raise the hairs on the back of my neck, ie. its Very unsafe.

4. The second generation Carat, when properly tuned for performance
and wingleted has an l/D of close to 40/1, a minium sink rate of about 138 fpm, and a sink rate at 80 kts. of about 300 fpm. All of these numbers, especially the interthermal sink rate at 80 knots, are necessary for good cross country sailplane performance.
Aircraft like the Sinus, which are essentially Light Sport Aircraft,
have about half of the sailplane performance numbers of the Carat.

(Myth buster #5 to follow)

Oliver Dyer-Bennet
AMS/USA

Subject: Re: [caratmotorglider] Re: Sailplane myths
From: Dan Rihn <rihndan@K87-VeHE2eIykhRyEJzg7lD-47hvy01MWZTeQTo-4QZKgE4hh3eTRIODtiKrq01qWTS_yO_kOxkS3ws.yahoo.invalid>
Date: 11/18/09 2:21 PM
To: caratmotorglider@yahoogroups.com

36/1...that sounds more like it what I've seen when I compare side by side gliding with a Carat in my ASW-20 (also with wing lets).
However, the Carat is a fantastic machine, and in many ways in a class by itself. Every airplane is a system of compromises in design and the Carat design has been well thought out and the compromises made are all excellent choices.
There's no need to make excuses nor exaggerate, it truly is a wonderful aircraft.

Dan

--- On Wed, 11/18/09, Carsten <ca_bauer@IAzoKEN6AmF4vFEkoVPlZIfEdAYUeIGaSOCRhgP9I1ZPyKPRxOs1s6KSc8qLsx_r7Bqc5ng.yahoo.invalid> wrote:

From: Carsten <ca_bauer@IAzoKEN6AmF4vFEkoVPlZIfEdAYUeIGaSOCRhgP9I1ZPyKPRxOs1s6KSc8qLsx_r7Bqc5ng.yahoo.invalid>
Subject: [caratmotorglider] Re: Sailplane myths
To: caratmotorglider@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 11:48 AM

Yeah Dan, 40:1 is a bit optimistic. I give mine a realistic 36:1. The Discus (same wings) has about 43:1, but it´s a lot cleaner and the nose section is smaller.

--- In caratmotorglider@ yahoogroups. com, Dan Rihn <rihndan@... > wrote:
>
> come on Oliver....40/ 1 is a bit of a stretch don't you think.
> Dan
>
> --- On Wed, 11/18/09, dyerbennet <amsaero@... > wrote:
>
>
> From: dyerbennet <amsaero@... >
> Subject: [caratmotorglider] Sailplane myths
> To: caratmotorglider@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 11:05 AM
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> Hi Carat Fans;
>
> There are some, "interesting" , urban legends out there.
>
> Enclosed are some "myth buster" corrections.
>
> 1. Eric is right, a clear plexiglas canopy stops about 95% of the suns UVA & UVB rays, a tinted canopy even more. Most serious sailplane pilots wear a soaring hat, a soaring shirt & use sun screen when soaring. The UV exposure come from the reflective white surface of the glider during assmbly or cleaning, not while soaring under the canopy.
>
> 2. Having flown over 10 different Carats, with over 300 hrs. flight time and over 500 engine starts, I have never had aa Carat not start.
> Motorglider engine non starting is usualy the result of pilot error, or low battery.
>
> 3. Owning a low wing Carat, a high wing Cessna 182, having owned about 20 DG's sailplanes & motorgliders, haven flown many soaring contests, and as the safety officer of the USA Motorglider Association, I find that thermaling a high wing aircraft, with, its inherent wing blocking lack of vision to the inside of the turn, to raise the hairs on the back of my neck, ie. its Very unsafe.
>
> 4. The second generation Carat, when tuned & wingleted, has an L/D of around 40/1, a minimum sink rate of 138 fpm, and a sink rate at 80 knots of about 300 fpm. All of these numbers, especially the sink rate at 80 knots, are necessary for good cross country sailplane performance.
> Aircraft like the Sinus, which are essentially light sport aircraft, have about half of the sailplane performance numbers of the Carat and do not excell at cross country soaring.
>
> Myth buster #5 to follow.
>
> Oliver Dyer-Bennet
> AMS/USA
>

Subject: Re: Sailplane myths
From: "rihndan" <rihndan@kmcvom1LOLGFUBxgbDIe6eA5DkWmB26JO3htaUa2NZePMitXqIDh7hFPMTFSwDxTyXGOhvqgxioWwkw.yahoo.invalid>
Date: 11/18/09 2:46 PM
To: caratmotorglider@yahoogroups.com

I can certainly agree with Oliver's comments on the lack of visibility in the Sinus. While I've never flown one, I did spend a lot of time sitting in one at Oshkosh.
I found the pilot visibility to be very bad in all directions and especilly where you'd look for traffic in a thermal gaggle.
I was allowed to change the seat cushion configuration any way I wanted and was able to lower my head out of the wing root area. This greatly improved the side vision but didn't make much improvement to the gaggloe vision and it made the over the nose vision even worse. It reminded me of a Monocoupe which is notorious for it's lack of visibility. Too bad because it is a well designed and well built airplane but in my opinion a poor configuration for soaring. Also I was wondering how the heck I'd take the wings on and off so that it would fit in my hangar. They are way too high to easily manage. It is offered as a nice kit which is appealing.
But the lack of visibility took it off my short list of motorgliders I'd like to own.

Dan

--- In caratmotorglider@yahoogroups.com, "dyerbennet" <amsaero@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Carat Fans;
> >
> >
> > There are some, "intresting", urban legends out there.
> >
> > Enclosed are some "myth buster" corrections.
> >
> > 1. Eric is right, a clear plexiglas canopy stops about 95% of the suns UVA & UVB rays, a tinted canopy even more. Most serious sailplane pilots wear a soaring hat, sunglasses, a soaring shirt & use sun screen when soaring. The UV exposure comes from the reflective white surface of the glider, or directly from sun exposure, during assembly or cleaning, not while soaring under the canopy.
> >
> > 2. Having flown over 10 different Carats, with over 300 hrs. flight time and over 500 engine starts, I have never had a Carat not start. Any motorglider engine non starting is usually the result of pilot error, or a low batttery.
> >
> > 3. Owning a low wing Carat, a high wing Cessna 182, having owned about 20 DG's sailplanes & motorgliders, having flown many soaring contests, and as the safety officer of the USA Motorglider Association, I find that the idea of thermaling a high wing aircraft, with its inherent wing blocking lack of vision in the direction of turn, especially with other gliders in the vicinity or in a glider gaggle, to raise the hairs on the back of my neck, ie. its Very unsafe.
> >
> > 4. The second generation Carat, when properly tuned for performance
> > and wingleted has an l/D of close to 40/1, a minium sink rate of about 138 fpm, and a sink rate at 80 kts. of about 300 fpm. All of these numbers, especially the interthermal sink rate at 80 knots, are necessary for good cross country sailplane performance.
> > Aircraft like the Sinus, which are essentially Light Sport Aircraft,
> > have about half of the sailplane performance numbers of the Carat.
> >
> > (Myth buster #5 to follow)
> >
> >
> > Oliver Dyer-Bennet
> > AMS/USA
> >

Subject: Re: Sailplane myths
From: "rihndan" <rihndan@GqOgsArp9Pcc_tRjdZZLFeKhnTBCF9-s5GmSCPzcOiV5Erm-AFoW59RGpH5UsLWiCWIOnqLL09nJfJYj.yahoo.invalid>
Date: 11/18/09 2:46 PM
To: caratmotorglider@yahoogroups.com

I can certainly agree with Oliver's comments on the lack of visibility in the Sinus. While I've never flown one, I did spend a lot of time sitting in one at Oshkosh.
I found the pilot visibility to be very bad in all directions and especilly where you'd look for traffic in a thermal gaggle.
I was allowed to change the seat cushion configuration any way I wanted and was able to lower my head out of the wing root area. This greatly improved the side vision but didn't make much improvement to the gaggloe vision and it made the over the nose vision even worse. It reminded me of a Monocoupe which is notorious for it's lack of visibility. Too bad because it is a well designed and well built airplane but in my opinion a poor configuration for soaring. Also I was wondering how the heck I'd take the wings on and off so that it would fit in my hangar. They are way too high to easily manage. It is offered as a nice kit which is appealing.
But the lack of visibility took it off my short list of motorgliders I'd like to own.

Dan

--- In caratmotorglider@yahoogroups.com, "dyerbennet" <amsaero@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Carat Fans;
> >
> >
> > There are some, "intresting", urban legends out there.
> >
> > Enclosed are some "myth buster" corrections.
> >
> > 1. Eric is right, a clear plexiglas canopy stops about 95% of the suns UVA & UVB rays, a tinted canopy even more. Most serious sailplane pilots wear a soaring hat, sunglasses, a soaring shirt & use sun screen when soaring. The UV exposure comes from the reflective white surface of the glider, or directly from sun exposure, during assembly or cleaning, not while soaring under the canopy.
> >
> > 2. Having flown over 10 different Carats, with over 300 hrs. flight time and over 500 engine starts, I have never had a Carat not start. Any motorglider engine non starting is usually the result of pilot error, or a low batttery.
> >
> > 3. Owning a low wing Carat, a high wing Cessna 182, having owned about 20 DG's sailplanes & motorgliders, having flown many soaring contests, and as the safety officer of the USA Motorglider Association, I find that the idea of thermaling a high wing aircraft, with its inherent wing blocking lack of vision in the direction of turn, especially with other gliders in the vicinity or in a glider gaggle, to raise the hairs on the back of my neck, ie. its Very unsafe.
> >
> > 4. The second generation Carat, when properly tuned for performance
> > and wingleted has an l/D of close to 40/1, a minium sink rate of about 138 fpm, and a sink rate at 80 kts. of about 300 fpm. All of these numbers, especially the interthermal sink rate at 80 knots, are necessary for good cross country sailplane performance.
> > Aircraft like the Sinus, which are essentially Light Sport Aircraft,
> > have about half of the sailplane performance numbers of the Carat.
> >
> > (Myth buster #5 to follow)
> >
> >
> > Oliver Dyer-Bennet
> > AMS/USA
> >