Using 92 Octane Auto Fuel with Ethanol?

 Abstract: Does anyone have experience with using 92 octane(US) auto fuel w/ehtanol(10%) in their Grob 109b? We have used 100LL for the past year and with gas prices going up we thought it would be worth a try. I am specifically wondering about maintenance and performance effects.

Subject: Using 92 octane auto fuel w/ ethanol?
From: "terrapac" lyonbyte
Date: 1/7/08 9:39 PM
To: G109_Pilots@yahoogroups.com

Does anyone have experience with using 92 octane(US) auto fuel w/ehtanol(10%) in their Grob 109b? We have used 100LL for the past year and with gas prices going up we thought it would be worth a try. I am specifically wondering about maintenance and performance effects.

Thanks,
Bill Lyon

Subject: Re: [G109_Pilots] Using 92 octane auto fuel w/ ethanol?
From: "Eero Ropo" <eero.ropo@LM1-k6mlDHDg4O6tFrv-XzX1jG1tJIgFNEiIQGE3SvpKL9c_e3tSrPwc-A45JOXnz9IjWqu59q9AChpymg.yahoo.invalid>
Date: 1/8/08 1:54 AM
To: G109_Pilots@yahoogroups.com

In Finland we do not use 100LL any more in our Grob 109A. We had a lot of valve problems with 100LL and decided to change. Our high octane gas (98 RON) includes 5% of etanol and I have not heard of any problems in other Finnish motor gliders either.
Best wishes,

Eero

Subject: Re: [G109_Pilots] Using 92 octane auto fuel w/ ethanol?
From: Soaringrob@8RPKmnfs8W3ukTuWmdIHXqOfis7GioBiK41ZYZe7gzGyUTxV5N7RznFQSnv2BGqjjXO9g1W21SYg.yahoo.invalid
Date: 1/8/08 2:08 PM
To: G109_Pilots@yahoogroups.com

Bill:

Years ago I used auto fuel (without ethanol) in my 109A. It worked better than 100LL. But, I don't know what the ethanol does.

Rob Wilkinson, Soaring Adventures

Subject: Re: Using 92 octane auto fuel w/ ethanol?
From: "prg55100" <pierrot.greff@EuHl-Yd3dpPLxm45nJ3cFFlWq57LDsxbGzmjT06YzpZhw_HR0YnBW0k_fQDMQzHJEax4nbgtM4sTl0Yg5bI.yahoo.invalid>
Date: 1/8/08 3:27 PM
To: G109_Pilots@yahoogroups.com

Hi,
Since I own my G109B (with G2500 original engine) I flew over 300hrs
with automotive 98 octane fuel without ethanol but with lead
substitute in France. The previous owner gave me this advise. He flew
the bird for over several hundred hours in these conditions in Germany
(also 98 octane automotive fuel but with some % added ethanol, I guess).
When I fly cross country I refuel with 100LL. I could not notice
significant performance change in between 98 automotive or 100LL fuel.
The engine is in perfect conditions.
The only warning I do is that some brands of lead substitute
crystallize in cold condition (minus 0°C conditions). I only use Wynns
brand for which I never noticed this behavior.
Cheers and fly safely
prg55100

Subject: RE: [G109_Pilots] Using 92 octane auto fuel w/ ethanol?
From: Jackie
Date: 1/9/08 10:51 AM
To: <g109_pilots@yahoogroups.com>

Hello All,
I noticed somewhere online that there is an advisory of some sort from Grob on using unleaded fuel. I requested a copy of the doc via email weeks ago and have heard nothing. If anybody gets it , please inform the group.
Thanks!
Jackie Feckoury
G109B owner

Subject: RE: [G109_Pilots] Using 92 octane auto fuel w/ ethanol?
From: "Rodger Winley" <rodger.winley@jusOnkpD8X-Zo4jh7VVvyPhDDtWRJvsdm9kBXQgdbaA6IMkommvnTPTxXRinGnoVTygPTYfZ4eQbXpXnLIGMAs5HS6AXuReZmw.yahoo.invalid>
Date: 1/9/08 12:04 PM
To: <G109_Pilots@yahoogroups.com>

Jackie

I have uploaded a couple of documents about the use of MOGAS, SB 817-46-2 lists the requirements that Grob have issued for the use of MOGAS in the G109B.  We looked at using MOGAS in our Grob 109B last year when the price of 100LL started to rise. Our 109B had already had the new heads fitted along with the rest of the requirements of 817-46-2, but so far we have stuck with 100LL due to the limitations outlined in the safety sense leaflet.
We will probably have to take another look at the idea considering the current price of a barrel of oil.

Hope the documents are of some help

Rodger_1331
G109B G-KNEK